Comments on: Part 4: So a Goddess-centered Pagan and a Christian sat down to talk…

By: Grian

Grian — Wed, 14 May 2008 18:02:51 +0000

Susy asked Mahud: “how do you know what’s true in the confusing buffet of beliefs that is Paganism?”
I think we all know what’s right and what’s wrong. It’s wrong to cause harm. Plain and simple. I am a firm believer that this can be applied to just about anything. For example: if I don’t do the dishes because I am too absorbed with my personal desires then my family has nothing to eat off of. They may even begin to feel neglected, unloved, etc. So I have caused harm and I should do the dishes from now on.
It’s a simplistic example, but it makes a lot of sense to me.
As far as what’s true concerning the reality of God/dess… well I think that’s up to you and every other individual free-willed, rational-thinking being. Perception is undoubtedly reality which is why we need faith.

By: mahud

mahud — Thu, 08 May 2008 16:04:57 +0000

“Mahud, good point about seasons of spiritual dryness. It seems so easy to be distracted from that which matters most, don’t you think? The book of Isaiah compares us to sheep, who’ve gone astray. We drift too easily, chasing the sweet patch of grass in the next field. That’s why I value the guide I have in the Bible; how do you know what’s true in the confusing buffet of beliefs that is Paganism?”
I think we can drift within our own faiths, as well as drift into “the sweet patch of grass in the next field.,” when we decide to follow another spiritual path (although, if the grass is truly sweet, why not eat it?), not because we reject God although some may reject God as Father or the Divine, but because we want to have a richer experience of divinity (which may have been lacking in our former practice). Experience is paramount. And such a shift in religious practice be it from Taoism to Buddhism, Buddhism to Christianity, Christianity to Druidism, etc is often necessary. We are all at different levels of spirituality and no religion has so far proved capable of providing all with what they need to live a spiritual life.
Jeffy Lily over at Druid Journal, posted a while back a comment at Meadowsweet and Myrrh :The Many & The One : A Look at the Common Purposes of Polytheism & Monotheism
“I tend to view Spirit as a substance from which deities and spirits are made. I think that if you focus too much on their commonalities, or “one-ness”, you miss a lot of richness in variation between them; but Spirit is tolerant, and will try to work with you regardless of your beliefs ”
“Which naturally brings us to tolerance. Since Spirit works hard to connect to people no matter who or what they worship (or whether they worship), it seems only natural that we should try to do the same.”
Regarding divine guidance, I place my no complete faith in any inerrant/infallible holy book, which seems to be an innovation of Mankind rather than God. To cite one example, Hindu’s have divinely revealed scriptures, known as Sruti (That which is heard).
I believe that the Divine can be revealed through all Spritual traditions, even practices of divination such a the I-Ching or Tarot.
I have found the Tarot to be as valuable as the Bible in providing divine guidance, but ultimately it comes down to our own interpretation.
Sorry if I’m babbling on too much

By: Susy

Susy — Tue, 06 May 2008 16:20:02 +0000

SUSY RESPONDS….
Mahud, good point about seasons of spiritual dryness. It seems so easy to be distracted from that which matters most, don’t you think? The book of Isaiah compares us to sheep, who’ve gone astray. We drift too easily, chasing the sweet patch of grass in the next field. That’s why I value the guide I have in the Bible; how do you know what’s true in the confusing buffet of beliefs that is Paganism?

By: mahud

mahud — Tue, 29 Apr 2008 06:18:40 +0000

“I don’t think sin is just unkindness to people or animals, but at core a rebellion or rejection of God and a determination to live our own way and under our own authority. We’re created beings who rejected our Creator. This leads to being enslaved by our own fleshly appetites and hunger for self-empowerment. The antidote? Faith in Jesus, who paid for our sins and offers grace, mercy, and forgiveness.”
I think it’s basically right to say that religious practitioners struggle with “fleshly appetites,” one way or another. Speaking for myself, I’m currently struggling with my spiritual practices vs. my own non-spiritual pursuits (not be able to drag myself away from the computer being one of them). I have been learning to meditate (to increase my mindfulness/awareness of myself, the world around me, and the sacred), but over the past couple of months I’ve let myself be distracted. Plus I get lazy.
Many religious philosophies speak of the potential harmfulness of selfish desire and offer methods to return us to a more ideal paradisaical state of being whether in this world or the next (or both).
I guess where I’m going with this, is that an encounter with God/Gods/Goddess(es)/Spirit, etc, is not always handed to us on a plate. Sometimes we experience a strong connection with the divine, other times we experience periods of spiritual dryness, but many who keep seeking (sometimes desperately and with a deep longing) the divine, in its many forms, achieve breakthroughs and undergo transforming experiences that creates an ever-deepening awareness of the divine that produces within ourselves what Paul called the fruit of the Spirit: Love, goodness, kindness, gentleness, etc.
Regarding ‘Self-empowerment,’ I think that many Pagans (including myself) credit any such internal power as being something much bigger than ourselves and acknowledge a sacred source. I think that’s the case with Wicca.

By: mahud

mahud — Sat, 26 Apr 2008 05:43:35 +0000

Hi, Susy. I discovered your blog via Panthea: All Things are Goddess.
Briefly, I’m a former Christian, who gradually over the last couple of years of adhering to Christian beliefs and practices for ten years, made the choice that is wasn’t for me. Even so, While I have rejected Christianity for my own spiritual path, I still believe its a valid way of connecting with the divine. But there’s a lot more out there you know.
I personally do not have a problem with the idea that I sin. Sin, as I understand it, is imbalance with the divine, that manifests itself when we place our own desires above others (our partners, family, friends, fellow spiritual practitioners, society, and so one). I do not believe that we are wholly evil, or completely dead in our transgressions. I am also capable of acts of compassion and love for others. If I were inherently evil, I don’t think this would be possible.
Anyway just a few thoughts of the top of my head
I also believe in more than one life. I do not adhere to any strict system of rebirth (I’m not even sure I believe in Karma). But I think it is possible that there exists many level of realities, which may be open to us when we die.
I guess I’ll leave it there. Thanks for the interviews.
Blessings!
*********************************
SUSY RESPONDS….
I appreciate you bringing this up, Mahud. I think when Christians try to understand Pagan beliefs, there is confusion over the use of words like sin, heaven, and God because we have very different ideas about what those words mean. And I’m glad that you took the time to explain your take on the concept of sin, especially since you come from a Christian background.
I don’t think sin is just unkindness to people or animals, but at core a rebellion or rejection of God and a determination to live our own way and under our own authority. We’re created beings who rejected our Creator. This leads to being enslaved by our own fleshly appetites and hunger for self-empowerment. The antidote? Faith in Jesus, who paid for our sins and offers grace, mercy, and forgiveness.

By: Lilly

Lilly — Wed, 09 Apr 2008 19:25:08 +0000

Interesting conversation.

By: Susy

Susy — Wed, 26 Mar 2008 22:32:45 +0000

I hear you, Grian. I’m coming to understand that paganism is a many faceted spiritual movement and beliefs vary widely from person to person. My thoughts on reincarnation refer to the classical Hindu teachings, where rebirth does not always result in an upward series of transformations, but can just as likely result in a very painful downward cycle where all bets are off and you may indeed end up a beggar, a cripple, or even an ant or a roach. In addition, your own personal cycle of reincarnation is tied in with that of your family. Spiritual bondage, according to my Indian friend Premdas. I agree.

By: Grian

Grian — Sat, 22 Mar 2008 19:34:13 +0000

Hi Susy. The interview is being presented well which I am very pleased with. I had a lovely time getting to know you and discussing beliefs.
On the subject of reincarnation… there are many different interpretations for this concept. Some people say that you can not move down the evolutionary ladder – say by coming back as a cockroach. Others say that you can. There does not seem to be one set opinion on it. It differs from culture to culture and sometimes person to person. My personal opinion is that there is no cruel and unusual karma. The appropriate concequences are always doled out by the Universe and sometimes in the life you’re currently living.
Thanks again for a lovely discussion and a great presentation of the topics. Though I may disagree with some of your beliefs that doesn’t mean I don’t respect them and you.
Many Blessings.

By: Cathi-Lyn

Cathi-Lyn — Sat, 22 Mar 2008 13:12:12 +0000

Hi Susy,
Just dropped by to see if you’d seen the following article about Christian teens and earth worship:
http://www.onenewsnow.com/Church/Default.aspx?id=68203
Anyhow, what a great interview with you and Grian! Superb clarification of views. It’s always worthwhile to stop by your blog for a read.